Expected Leather Wear

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thomas4211
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Expected Leather Wear

Post by thomas4211 »

I pulled the sucker rod a few weeks ago and replaced the three leathers. The replaced leathers were worn down to a circular strip of leather. Having repaired and replaced the entire linkage on my 12 foot Baker, from the engine to the leathers, everything was working great. Yesterday it stopped producing water. I know the well is not dry and suspect that the leathers wore out quickly. Appreciate your experience with leather wear.
Wayne
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Re: Expected Leather Wear

Post by Wayne »

I wouldn't think they would have wore out that soon unless you have a lot of sand in the well. Something might have came loose down hole.
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windybob
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Re: Expected Leather Wear

Post by windybob »

Wayne, maybe that, or maybe a check valve in the cylinder is hung up, or not working right.

Either way, make sure you install a holding device on the (jet rod) before disconnecting from the windmill. If the rod has parted, you really don't want to be pulling the pipe to retrieve the upper section(s) of the rod. One you determine whether the rod has parted or not, if it has not, you can remove the holding devise, providing the pipe itself has not parted. If the pipe itself has parted, then of course, it needs to come out to be put together.
Call Dan Benjamin for parts. P M me for the phone number.
Ron Stauffer
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Re: Expected Leather Wear

Post by Ron Stauffer »

When you say you pulled sucker rod and replaced 3 leathers, I can assume you have an open top cylinder setup? If that is the case, how long did the original leathers last? A new open top or releathered open top will shudder on the down stroke if everything is connected and the leathers are good. If you have a stuffing box, loosen the packing nut to take it's resistance out of the troubleshooting. You should be able to tell by the feel if everything is still connected.

Open top cylinders have enough resistance on the down stroke that they need to have an anti swivel on the pump rod in the tower. In gusty winds and furling, you basically have a 12' pipe wrench trying to loosen everything.

If you have 5/8 glass rod with properly placed guides a foot below the coupler and in the middle of the stick, you dont have to worry about the rod dropping. In fact, if it has become uncoupled at a rod coupler you can drop down with the uncoupled rod and turn in to the lower and retrieve to tighten. It is amazing to feel it thread in when uncoupled more than 200' below.

Second scenario would be that it unthreaded the plunger in the cylinder. I have dropped down to try and rethread to recover. Have done this three times and with having to center on the ball of the check was only successful 1 of 3 attempts. Rather than pull everything to retrieve, I just left it in above the bottom check as they had all 36" barrel cylinders and there was plenty of room above for the plunger. These issues were all created by an installer that thought you only had to hand tighten the plunger when releathering.

Third scenario would be dirt in the bottom check. Turn the mill off for a couple days and let the well settle. Turn it back on when having good consistent 10-15 mph winds. Half the time it will self clean.

Fourth would be rusted through drop pipe. See if the drop pipe holds water by adding water to the drop pipe. If you have a weep hole, it should hold at that height.

Fifth could be anything, after all it is a windmill. When they pump water, it is a miracle. When dealing with electric sub pumps, you turn the switch on and expect water. That is not the case with a windmill.

Hope that helps

Ron Stauffer
Montrose CO
mtblah
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Re: Expected Leather Wear

Post by mtblah »

Ron, your right on all of the above observations ! LOL on #5
thomas4211
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Re: Expected Leather Wear

Post by thomas4211 »

Thanks for the advice, guys. I went through each idea and all of a sudden, the mill started to produce water. I am assuming Ron's third scenario was correct. Check valve. My check valve is a brass ball that is captured in a brass cage just above the leathers. I could see where dirt or a small stone lodged itself below the ball and allowed the water to escape before lifting. And as Ron predicted, it self cleaned.
I really appreciate all of you sharing your many years of experience. I love Ron's last comment, "When they pump water it is a miracle." Over the years, I spent more time on the windmill than any other project on our property. But when it's turning and pumping, it's magic.
Ron Stauffer
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Re: Expected Leather Wear

Post by Ron Stauffer »

If it was dirt, it was likely scale from the inside of the pipe especially if an 1 7/8" cylinder. 2 1/4 and 2 3/4 open tops arent as prone since there is a 1/4 between plunger OD and pipe ID when pulling. The check you referenced and changed leathers on is called travelling check, working check or plunger depending on your neck of the woods. The check valve or the bottom check can also be retrieved on an open top by lowering the working string down and turning on one thread to pull everything. The check valve has one leather and a ball seat. This leather doesnt move and just seals. I usually dont pull the bottom check every time as the only wear is the ball and seat but do if the drop pipe is not holding the water column. A few more miracles and you can achieve sainthood...

Ron
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Bryon
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Re: Expected Leather Wear

Post by Bryon »

Since you have ball valves, you can hear them when they are working. They should sound the same. Buzz on the up stroke (check valve), buzz on the down stroke (traveling valve). If they sound different, something might be caught in one (or both).
Last edited by Bryon on Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
thomas4211
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Location: Temecula, CA

Re: Expected Leather Wear

Post by thomas4211 »

Reaching out to the group before I pull the drop pipe and cylinder. After replacing the leathers last spring, the mill stopped producing water three weeks later. I finally got the energy to pull the sucker rod again and replace the leathers with 1 7/8 inch neoprene cups. Two of the three leathers I replaced last spring were badly worn. I hoped using neoprene would give me less wear. After replacement, the mill produced water for 48 hours and then stopped producing. I left the top of the drop pipe open so I could observe the water level. The level is constant at the top of the drop pipe (so no leaks) but water will not move up when the mill is turning. Any thoughts will be appreciated.
Ron Stauffer
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Re: Expected Leather Wear

Post by Ron Stauffer »

I left the top of the drop pipe open so I could observe the water level. The level is constant at the top of the drop pipe (so no leaks) but water will not move up when the mill is turning. Any thoughts will be appreciated.
With this info, you can only be sure of two things: there is no hole in the drop pipe AND at least one of the ball valves is functioning. You can pull the rod up with just the travelling/working check/plunger far enough that it is out of the cylinder and in to the pipe and see if the water column still holds, if it does the bottom check/valve should be fine.

Do you pull the bottom check when releathering? You have to drop down and turn clockwise at least a thread to get the bottom check when pulling.

If you have rods with guides and good leathers, the rod should shudder on the down stroke. Most open tops when unhooked will not fall down to the cylinder bottom.

If it pumped for a short time, it is likely not the leathers and more likely dirt in one or other checks.

Ron Stauffer
Montrose CO
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