Fairbanks Morse Model 45- rebuild

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windybob
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Location: Ames Oklahoma

Re: Fairbanks Morse Model 45- rebuild

Post by windybob »

Left the hot tub behind at the old house.

Instead of buying a Teeter, can I just hang from the winchline on the truck?
Call Dan Benjamin for parts. P M me for the phone number.
Wayne
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Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:03 am
Location: Corsicana Tx.

Re: Fairbanks Morse Model 45- rebuild

Post by Wayne »

When you are up there hanging up side town will there be anybody to get you back on the ground in case you go to sleep?
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windybob
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Re: Fairbanks Morse Model 45- rebuild

Post by windybob »

They will probly take off for the day.
Call Dan Benjamin for parts. P M me for the phone number.
FlJet
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Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:41 pm
Location: North Central Florida

Re: Fairbanks Morse Model 45- rebuild

Post by FlJet »

Windybob- Glad you have things scheduled. Pinched nerves are no joke. I hope this gives you some relief.
FlJet
Posts: 130
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:41 pm
Location: North Central Florida

Re: Fairbanks Morse Model 45- rebuild

Post by FlJet »

Paul- Finally got back from visiting family and had the chance to try my hand at making some springs. Unfortunately, I cannot slow my lathe down enough to safely turn these under power. I tried it, it was dangerous. But I did discover that if I chuck up a 3/4" piece of pipe and roll it by hand, the ID of the spring is just slightly smaller than my 1-1/8" shaft which is perfect. I tried making these springs with the turns tight to each other and then stretching them out but that messes up the diameter of the spring and I couldn't keep my spacing right. So the plan is to mark up the 3/4" pipe with the right spacing and get a spare set of hands over one evening to help me out. I can roll the lathe by hand and guide the wire if someone else will keep some tension on it for me. So not quite what I think you were suggesting, but it should work out just fine. So long as I remember to keep my spring rotation correct. The first good one I did was backwards.

In other news- I tracked down some 1" cold rolled stock out in the pile to re-do the trunion pins. Hoping to find a couple of free minutes this week to turn those down. And my brake shoes showed up sometime over the weekend. Perfect fit to the inside of the hub, I just need to figure out how to mount it and get it to play well with the brake lever. I have a great idea, I just have no idea how to measure what I need to measure. It might be a guess and check scenario to get it to work.
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windybob
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Re: Fairbanks Morse Model 45- rebuild

Post by windybob »

From what I saw on the remains of the oil-carrier wire when I took mine apart, the wrap was only like 1 wrap per inch. I don't know if the more wraps, the more oil, or not. I do know that the wire does need to touch what it's carrying oil to though. I have experiment with such things in the past. From ACME threaded rods, to wires and springs, they do carry oil. They need to have, (or touch) a supply, and on the other end, need to touch what the oil goes to. If not, then you have an oil slinger, eg. Monitor oil slinger under the hub.

The one thing I do not know, is how much feed the bearing needs. The inner case bearings usually get a flood, which is fine, but other "outer" or distant bearings don't get more than what a oil return passage can handle. Especially in the colder months. That's why it's SO important to use a minimum weight oil, so it does not pile up in the snout before it runs back to the case. That being said, and considering a 6 ft and (maybe an 8 ft mill ) should run at about 100 rpm max, which gives you about 30-33 strokes a minute. (give or take).
If the snout bearing gets maybe 6 or 8 drops a minute, would that suffice? Maybe so. That would be a drop every 10 seconds. I would think for a relative slow speed machine that works.

I rebuilt a STAR 24 for the parks dept in St Louis county years ago, and I got rid of the wire feed, and installed a different method of carrying oil to the nose bearing. I also installed a separate adjustable thrust bearing for the mainshaft. On the oiler for the snout, I made little cups to dip in the oil supply at the start of the oiler, to make sure the oiler itself got plenty of oil to take to the front. That was many years ago. I had a picture sent to me recently of the mill still up and proudly pumping water.

I guess what I'm saying is not rocket science, but just common sense stuff, with mechanical knowledge. A person can always chuck-up a shaft, make a mock-up of the oil feed, and try it first for complete satisfaction of what you engineer. I love engineering and making stuff. In fact, some of the stuff I've done in the shop on windmills should be illegal. If the windmill police ever drop in, and see what I've done, I'm toast.
Call Dan Benjamin for parts. P M me for the phone number.
FlJet
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Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:41 pm
Location: North Central Florida

Re: Fairbanks Morse Model 45- rebuild

Post by FlJet »

Based on the documents I have on this mill, about 1" per wrap looks accurate. If the documents are accurate. I actually didn't put a tape on anything, I just eyeballed it at "slightly less than the width of the pinion gears" per wrap. But I decided I have to wrap it at the spacing I need. I can't space my wraps tight and then stretch the spring out to get my spacing. It just screws everything up. I am planning on making the spring about 1/4" long so that I have to slightly compress it when I assemble the main shaft. That way it touches the front pion gear and the front bearing. On one of my attempts, I left a couple of wraps tight on one end, and then cut it off with an angle grinder. So that the end of the spring was flat (like a valve spring end) and would ride smooth on the front bearing. I'll have to watch all of this though. There's the feed-rate down the shaft with the spring, but there's also the oil pump. I dropped the oil pump down in a bucket of gasoline to break things up and pumped a fair amount of crud out of the top once I got things moving. But I had to stroke it pretty fast to get it to pump. Granted that was with gas, not with oil and I would assume the oil would pump more easily. But I won't know how well the oil pump works until I actually get the mill installed and it starts spinning in the wind. I hadn't thought about bypassing the oil pump and installing a dipper of some sort on the shaft. I'll add that to my list of potentials.

Speaking of valve springs. I did find one that fits great for my buffer spring, but I have no idea if it's the right stiffness. I have a little tension on my governor spring, and the buffer spring is already compressed about 1/3. I feel like there is an acceptable range I could be in, and this will be easy to play with after it's installed so I'm not super concerned. But if I can get it right on the bench, I'd love to. Anyone have any advice on sizing the buffer spring on an 8' mill?

On the oil weight- being in Florida, I should be fine with an 90 weight gear oil. It was 82 degrees at my house on Saturday. Felt funny cutting and splitting firewood. We will dip below freezing a handful of nights a year, but it's never cold for long around here. The time spent below freezing here is measured in hours each year. Though a thicker oil would probably be fine, I'm planning on running ATF. That seems to be the general recommendation around here. And it's cheap and readily available.
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windybob
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Re: Fairbanks Morse Model 45- rebuild

Post by windybob »

Ok, yeah, you need to nix the 90 weight idea, and stick with the ATF. Also, keep the oil pump.
Finally, when you assemble the mill and tail, stand behind it and throw the tail over to the bumper spring. Try to see how much it compresses. Then manually pull the tail over by hand to get the same compression and see what you have. Some mills don't even have a bumper spring, so this is a luxury that should be easy to set up. This aint brain surgery.
Call Dan Benjamin for parts. P M me for the phone number.
FlJet
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Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:41 pm
Location: North Central Florida

Re: Fairbanks Morse Model 45- rebuild

Post by FlJet »

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Windy- I was joking about the 90-weight oil. My point was that I maybe have a little less concern with lubricating my front bearing than those of you with actual cold weather. I'll try and check on this once I get it installed and running. Both on a very cold morning and a very hot afternoon. I'm planning on running ATF, but I'm open to changing that if it makes sense. Time will tell.

I did manage to get a little more started on the mill. I decided I wanted to stencil the original "Fairbanks Morse" lettering on the tail which sent me down a rabbit hole. I unbolted the tail metal, which made me realize just how thin that metal is, and how terrible the paint is. I also realized how bent and twisted it is. So instead of straightening, sandblasting, painting, stenciling, and then maybe not being happy with my work, I've developed a new plan. I work construction so I called up my HVAC sub. He's got a sheet-metal fab shop for their ductwork. We are meeting up at their shop on Friday to sheer out a new tail. Same size, but going with a slightly different construction method to work within the tools and skills that he has. My current tail has a rolled bead around the top, bottom, and rear. He doesn't have a roller, but he does have a break. So we'll shear it wide, and break the edge for strength. I'm trying to decide whether to just fold the edge over so it's double thickness or break the edge into a V. Double thickness is easier but it will hold a little moisture which may lead to problems down the road. Breaking a V around the edge is probably stronger too. I'm also considering cross-breaking it for a little more strength. The last year this mill was manufactured was 1952. Assuming this is the original tail it's ~70 years old. It's in great shape for its age, but it has seen better days. I'd be resorting to repainting it after I blast it. This way I'm starting off with new galvanized tin.

Once I get the new tail metal home, I'll get the lettering stenciled on. We haven't had a television in the house in a dozen years. We do however have a projector that we watch movies on occasionally. It's conveniently set up to project on my living room wall. So I'll screw the new tail metal to the wall, and project the tail image on have onto it and tape it off. Thankfully, my wife is an understanding woman. The paint for the letters? Flat black? Satin? What looks best?
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windybob
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Re: Fairbanks Morse Model 45- rebuild

Post by windybob »

It all sounds like a good plan! ATF should be put on the menu, in my opinion. New metal from the sheet metal guy----excellent idea. I have done that on occasion. I have also rolled a bead around #9 wire on the edge for strength. Not easy with only pliers, vice grips, and hammers, but certainly not impossible. The STOVER tail I did turned out nice. I think the pictures are on my other computer, which is collecting dust at my repair man's shop in a corner somewhere.
The Van Sickle Aluminum oil paint is always what I use, the SPAR type. The other is inferior, in my inferior opinion. Oil paint gloss black is great, it will dull within a month.

Do you still have letters that are somewhat readable? I don't think I have your particular stencil.
Call Dan Benjamin for parts. P M me for the phone number.
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