So, off grid?

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Kansas Rust Buzzard
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So, off grid?

Post by Kansas Rust Buzzard »

OK, I am throwing this out again. A few years ago, I posted this question about off grid set ups for a modern home with family. I finally decided to bite the bullet and pay the local electric Cooperative $30K for line service. I got my basement dug and was getting things done when the pandemic and rebar shortage hit so I kind of tabled it. Well, I got back on the project this spring and called the electric company to to put in wire service but it has more than doubled since the pandemic. I am not overly exited about spending that much and those of you who know me in real life know I am so tight I squeak when I walk, so I am back to looking at off grid. Moving isn't really an option now, besides, this is the only place I could find good water and now have a well. I have good wind and am looking at a wind-solar set up. I got really good wind, Dodge City Kansas is one of the windiest places in the US and not just because of me. I have found a lot of info on solar on youtube, its gotten better and cheaper but most of those guys shun wind because they don't have enough of it to be effective. So if any of you got any advice, you can't hurt my feelings, thanks.
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PaulV
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Re: So, off grid?

Post by PaulV »

PM Ron Stauffer. He has an off-grid home in Montrose, CO.
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Wayne
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Re: So, off grid?

Post by Wayne »

Ron posted once he wasn't in favor of wind because all you could get was China made turbines. He didn't think a lot of them, but if you contact him things might have changed. As I remember he had quit a setup.
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Jim Corcoran
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Re: So, off grid?

Post by Jim Corcoran »

As I recall (not an easy task at my age), Ken O'Brock lives off the grid as well.
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Jim
" You need to get at least 30 miles out of Austin before you're firmly back in Texas."
Kansas Rust Buzzard
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Re: So, off grid?

Post by Kansas Rust Buzzard »

Dang, I didn't know Ken did, I would have asked him about it in Lamar. I have read some really good books on making your own wind turbines from scratch, it doesn't look that hard, of course I got lathes, mills and and airplane prop carving lathe too. Thanks
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Ken O'Brock
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Re: So, off grid?

Post by Ken O'Brock »

Did I hear my name mentioned about being off the grid? Yes, I have been living off the grid for going on 7 years. The solar system has been in for 8 years. Since there is no grid available where it is, I wanted to try it out for a year before actually moving there. The big thing I learned is not to put solar panels on a roof if you live where it snows. It doesn't take much snow to cut off electric production and it's a waste of time to try to clean the snow off of the panels. So, there are 28 solar panels on the roof and 30 more on 2 poles that can be manually tilted to be more in line with the sun. I leave them vertical all the time with 15 facing direct south and 15 facing SE to get the morning sun and start producing earlier in the morning. The battery bank is 10 Lithium ion batteries with 48 volts DC feeding into an Outback inverter that puts out 120/240 volts AC.
Windcatcher530 Dan
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Re: So, off grid?

Post by Windcatcher530 Dan »

The solar companies up here offer three different options. 1 you can buy them outright. 2 you can buy them with payment options. 3 you lease them which includes free maintenance and replacement The first two options you can purchase a maintenance and replacement plan.
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Ken O'Brock
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Re: So, off grid?

Post by Ken O'Brock »

That might be a good deal if there is a grid available. The problem with being tied to the grid, is, when the grid is down so are you. I never know when there is a power outage.
Windcatcher530 Dan
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Re: So, off grid?

Post by Windcatcher530 Dan »

Up here Ken almost everyone has a natural or propane gas on demand whole house generator if the power goes out to take over besides the solar panels so we're never without power. I also heat my house strictly with firewood.
Ron Stauffer
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Re: So, off grid?

Post by Ron Stauffer »

Solar basics:

Three types of systems- grid tie, hybrid and off grid.

Grid tie – Just panels and inverter. You back feed the grid if production exceeds loads. You draw off grid at night and grid down, you are down.

Hybrid – Panels, inverter and batteries tied to grid. Basically a large UPS that can power select loads or whole house. Battery bank and panels determines how long you could power critical loads. Can be done without panels tied to grid but load duration is tied to the energy stored in the battery bank. Hybrid inverters are not as efficient as grid tie inverters.

Off grid -- Panels and or wind turbine, charge controller, inverter and battery bank. Inverter has the capability to auto start and stop back up generator to power certain loads and charge battery bank.

Solar panel prices are roughly one fifth the cost they were 27 years ago when started in the biz. China/SE Asia produces almost all cells. The few remaining US manufacturers are assembling US “made” panels with foreign cells. When panels cost 5X of now, there were different grades, now everything coming off the line is sold as one grade. I have seen panel failures already, as I predicted but at current prices they are disposable. Charge controllers and inverters were once US made also but not anymore. Over 90% of the Trace inverters are still operating 25 years later. I have had startup failures on new electronics.

Since solar panels are so cheap, we now have a fair number of off grid systems without backup generators. The solar arrays are twice the size that we would normally use but it comes out to a not too much different outlay cost initially. With the great sun of the southwest here, you can figure on getting 3.5 watts of usable energy for every 1 watt of panels allowing for the inefficiencies of converting DC to AC, battery storage etc. Battery banks are sized for 3 days of autonomy to 80% depth of discharge.

Aaron, here is the bad for off grid. No one likes to finance the batteries as they are high cost and life is subject to user use and misuse. Banks don’t like off grid for mortgages so it is harder to get financing and the rate is higher if you can get it. Another consideration for you is central AC. Here, most off grid is 7500’ elevation and higher so I have only a couple systems and they use evaporative cooling since we are low humidity. A system cost may not be too much different than a line extension but what you would spend on a monthly bill you will need to put the money away for eventual battery replacement. Off grid has the only incentive of the federal tax credit which has been reduced. Most whole house full time off grid systems are 48V DC nominal systems. Home brew wind turbines are hard to regulate at higher DC voltages. India is the common manufacturer for small off grid wind turbines and they fall in to the even more disposable than cheap solar panel category.

I live off grid because at the time a line extension was over a 100 for 3 miles of poles 27 years ago. There is enough off grid here that it is considered more mainstream.

Ron Stauffer
Montrose CO
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