Hello from South Africa
Thank you for been allowed to become a member of the forum.
I am involved with the development of a late 19th century living farm museum in the Western Cape Province of South Africa. We want to install a windmill on the farm.
In a book Windpumps in South Africa by Walton and Pretorius it is stated that “Aermotors, which were first manufactured by the Aermotor Company of Chicago, Illinois, in 1888, became very popular in South Africa almost from their inception"
It is unlikely that we would be able to find a late 19th century Aermotor to buy in South Africa. We thus accept that we'll have to try and get as old as possible one and then just explain to visitors that it is not a late 19th century one. By comparing photographs of late 19th century one's with later models I have also realised that e.g. the A502 and A602 on the face of it does not look that different from e.g. the one in the Henry Ford Museum that was manufactured in 1898/1899. Please see https://www.thehenryford.org/collection ... act/22214/
We have been offered an Aermotor that I guess may be a A502 but is more likely a A602 and please need assistance to have it dated before we consider purchasing it.
I shall then give more information on the windmill in the appropriate forum.
Kind regards
Daniel
New Member
Re: New Member
Hi Daniel. Welcome the the site.
The 502 Aermotor was made only in 1915, then in 1916 came the 602. The former is unique, as the are bumper springs on the back of the head mounted to the case. There are late 1800 open gear Aermotors here, and I think there are some to be purchased from somoe folks who have enough of them. Certain models of pre-1900 ones are very limited, but others are more common than I thought.
Let's see what other have to say about your situation. If there are early open gear models available, and someone has one to sell, shipping may or may not be an issue. Hope you find what you need for an accurate display.
The 502 Aermotor was made only in 1915, then in 1916 came the 602. The former is unique, as the are bumper springs on the back of the head mounted to the case. There are late 1800 open gear Aermotors here, and I think there are some to be purchased from somoe folks who have enough of them. Certain models of pre-1900 ones are very limited, but others are more common than I thought.
Let's see what other have to say about your situation. If there are early open gear models available, and someone has one to sell, shipping may or may not be an issue. Hope you find what you need for an accurate display.
Call Dan Benjamin for parts. P M me for the phone number.
Re: New Member
Welcome Daniel , I agree with Windy's statement . When the windmill is up in the air 30 ft on the tower , NO ONE will know the difference from a 502 , 602 , 702 , Aermotor only improved serviceability & reliability over the years . Remember the earlier the windmill the more constant attention it will need , ie; constant oiling & greasing and adjustments .
Re: New Member
Hi Windy and Mike
Thank you for your kind messages.
Windy as the chance is then much better to find a late 19th century model in the US than in South Africa I have thought about the possibility of trying to import one. But as Mike confirmed - what I have also figured out by comparing photographs of the various models - they all look kind of the same from a distance. I would then suggest to my superiors that we should rather try to buy a relatively older model in South Africa and then just explain to the visitors what they are looking at - e.g. a Model 602 - and how it differs from e.g. the 1897 model. The focus year of our museum is 1897 (we would then prefer a 1897 or older model that was still used in 1897) and I have seen at https://bit.ly/3PEHLAB that there is also a model that was made in 1897.
In the book Farming Industries in the Cape Colony that was published in 1896 (for e-book see https://bit.ly/3XOEzER) there is an advertisement for Aermotors. The one's advertised then predates 1897 and the windmill on the sketches also look very much the same as the later models.
Mike you make a vallid point that I have also thought about and that is that the older models then need amongst other constant oiling. It would thus be better for us to buy a Model 502 or later one. In the book Windpumps in South Africa by Walton and Pretorius it is then mentioned that the Model 502 was the first self-oiling one.
Windy I was under the wrong impression that the Model 602 dated from ca 1926, but yes it was then as you said from 1916. I have missed that information in Still Turning: A History of Aermotor Windmills of which I have an e-book.
The one that has been offered to us have patents for the period 1913-1925 and I guess then that it may be a Model 602 as the Model 702 was then manufactured from 1933.
A lady who is the curator of a windmill museum in Loeriesfontein in our Northern Cape Province send me the following information from the book A Field Guide to American Windmills: “On the newer model (note: then 702) straight rod arms are screwed directly into the wheel hub instead of being V-shaped and looped around a portion of the hub (Note: that was then as you probably know the case with Models 502 and 602).
I cannot see this difference when I compare the various wheels with each other. I would appreciate it if you can try to assist me with the identifcation. I attach photos.
I presume it is better to move the discussion to one of the other forums? If so please let me know how we can do that.
Thank you very much.
Kind regards
Daniel
Thank you for your kind messages.
Windy as the chance is then much better to find a late 19th century model in the US than in South Africa I have thought about the possibility of trying to import one. But as Mike confirmed - what I have also figured out by comparing photographs of the various models - they all look kind of the same from a distance. I would then suggest to my superiors that we should rather try to buy a relatively older model in South Africa and then just explain to the visitors what they are looking at - e.g. a Model 602 - and how it differs from e.g. the 1897 model. The focus year of our museum is 1897 (we would then prefer a 1897 or older model that was still used in 1897) and I have seen at https://bit.ly/3PEHLAB that there is also a model that was made in 1897.
In the book Farming Industries in the Cape Colony that was published in 1896 (for e-book see https://bit.ly/3XOEzER) there is an advertisement for Aermotors. The one's advertised then predates 1897 and the windmill on the sketches also look very much the same as the later models.
Mike you make a vallid point that I have also thought about and that is that the older models then need amongst other constant oiling. It would thus be better for us to buy a Model 502 or later one. In the book Windpumps in South Africa by Walton and Pretorius it is then mentioned that the Model 502 was the first self-oiling one.
Windy I was under the wrong impression that the Model 602 dated from ca 1926, but yes it was then as you said from 1916. I have missed that information in Still Turning: A History of Aermotor Windmills of which I have an e-book.
The one that has been offered to us have patents for the period 1913-1925 and I guess then that it may be a Model 602 as the Model 702 was then manufactured from 1933.
A lady who is the curator of a windmill museum in Loeriesfontein in our Northern Cape Province send me the following information from the book A Field Guide to American Windmills: “On the newer model (note: then 702) straight rod arms are screwed directly into the wheel hub instead of being V-shaped and looped around a portion of the hub (Note: that was then as you probably know the case with Models 502 and 602).
I cannot see this difference when I compare the various wheels with each other. I would appreciate it if you can try to assist me with the identifcation. I attach photos.
I presume it is better to move the discussion to one of the other forums? If so please let me know how we can do that.
Thank you very much.
Kind regards
Daniel
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Re: New Member
The odds of you finding a 502 Aermotor complete and intact would most likely be as common as finding hens teeth. PLus, they only had them for 1 year, and came out with the 602 model, so they were not the greatest. Even the very early 602 mills had a fatal flaw in the oiling system, but was rectified, and older ones had a relatively easy fix. I cannot quite see the front hub in the picture, olr the back of the case to tell for sure if it's a 602 or 702. On the front of the case, it says. (fan side) It also has a letter ( A or X) meaning the size. X is 6 feet across the wheel, and A is 8 foot.
The wheel sections (6) go back to turn of the century for fit, so they will go on most models. The tail has the same basic shape, but the tail frame
(tailbone) differs. However all 602 and 702 wheels and tails and tailbones swap out.
Open gear very old Aermotors are made without a crankcase for oiling, so servicing at least once a month is a chore to do, and finding someone to do it might be harder. Many should be serviced once a week, or after rain. From the 502 up, change oil and service once a year, or more if leaks are noticed. Slight weeping is fine, but leaks are an issue. 6 ft mills only hold 1 qt of oil, 8 ft mills 2 quarts. So that's not a lot of reserve to handle a any depletion of oil. The good thing is, the bull ( crank) gears are very close to the bottom of the sump, so even a little oil can get picked up and transfered around the mill.
All that stated, a 502 would not be desireable for working, a 602 or 702 or even a later 802 (updated) would be for many reasons. You could have a later mill up there working hard, and an open gear older (original type) one on display for people to view. Let's see what others say about it.
If possible, have them take a shot of the front of the case, or just tell you what number is on it.
The wheel sections (6) go back to turn of the century for fit, so they will go on most models. The tail has the same basic shape, but the tail frame
(tailbone) differs. However all 602 and 702 wheels and tails and tailbones swap out.
Open gear very old Aermotors are made without a crankcase for oiling, so servicing at least once a month is a chore to do, and finding someone to do it might be harder. Many should be serviced once a week, or after rain. From the 502 up, change oil and service once a year, or more if leaks are noticed. Slight weeping is fine, but leaks are an issue. 6 ft mills only hold 1 qt of oil, 8 ft mills 2 quarts. So that's not a lot of reserve to handle a any depletion of oil. The good thing is, the bull ( crank) gears are very close to the bottom of the sump, so even a little oil can get picked up and transfered around the mill.
All that stated, a 502 would not be desireable for working, a 602 or 702 or even a later 802 (updated) would be for many reasons. You could have a later mill up there working hard, and an open gear older (original type) one on display for people to view. Let's see what others say about it.
If possible, have them take a shot of the front of the case, or just tell you what number is on it.
Call Dan Benjamin for parts. P M me for the phone number.
Re: New Member
Again I agree with Windy . Good working windmill up on the tower that requires very little maintance and an old 1800's open gear mill on a short stub tower showing the difference and why the "newer " enclosed oil resivor motor really is working .
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Windcatcher530 Dan
- Posts: 1925
- Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:06 pm
- Location: Alcove N.Y.i buy and restore
Re: New Member
Daniel you mentioned the focus of the museum is 1897 and Aermoter made a model 1897 which they did it only came with a 10ft wheel and had glass oilers. I only know of one here in NY. They are extremely rare i don't think you'll ever find one. Like Bob and Mike said better luck with a 602 or 702. Dan from NY.
Re: New Member
Hi Dan
Thank you for the information. Much appreciated. It is then definitely not an option for us!
I am now convinced that we should try to get a 602 or 702 here in South Africa and the change is then very, very that the one that has been offered to us is a 602 or early 702
Kind regards
Daniel
Thank you for the information. Much appreciated. It is then definitely not an option for us!
I am now convinced that we should try to get a 602 or 702 here in South Africa and the change is then very, very that the one that has been offered to us is a 602 or early 702
Kind regards
Daniel
Re: New Member
Hi Windy Thank you very much for the detailed response. I shall then get more photographs to assist with the identification of the one that has been offered to us.
Windy, Mike and Dan Do you perhaps know of scale models that were made of some of the late 19th century models? That we can then use to educate people on the difference between late 19th century models and the one that we are going to exhibit. Only one will do. For the rest of the story we can use sketches etc.
Apart from the sources I have already referred to and then the information you gave me so far I amongst other also have interesting reports of government officials of the time giving feedback on the use of windmills in the district where our museum is been developed. There is thus enough material to be able to tell an interesting story.
Windy, Mike and Dan Do you perhaps know of scale models that were made of some of the late 19th century models? That we can then use to educate people on the difference between late 19th century models and the one that we are going to exhibit. Only one will do. For the rest of the story we can use sketches etc.
Apart from the sources I have already referred to and then the information you gave me so far I amongst other also have interesting reports of government officials of the time giving feedback on the use of windmills in the district where our museum is been developed. There is thus enough material to be able to tell an interesting story.
Re: New Member
Have you looked at the Wind Power Center's website in Lubbock. They have a complete collection of Aermotors. Might have some photos you could use. There is a fellow windmiller Darrin Jantz who is making models using a 3d printer. Dom't know if he has done an early Aermotor. His contact info is Phone 785-393-9513. He has posted here underthe name rockislandnut here on the site. His post is under Gereral discussions 3D models.
