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Montgomery Ward in-ground cylinder
Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2024 10:45 am
by Paisanoil
There was a hand pump right on the property line of our remote river bottom field, then it went missing. This was some 30 years back. Recently I found the 1.5" pipe with a metal detector, and the Montgomery Ward cylinder was just below rhe frost line. It came off easily, leaving the apparently driven well pipe, also 1.5". A weighted string drops about 60', but we haven't brought up water yet, either by tapping on onto the pipe nor by dropping smaller pipe inside. I think it is mudded in, and there is probably a rusty muddy sand point down there Any ideas are welcome, as it would be great to have water there.
The cylinder is found in the 1924 catalogue (
www.archive.org). Haven't disassembled it yet. The rods and keepers shown are homemade, and very crude. Anyone seen a setup like this one? Would there have been a windmill?
Re: Montgomery Ward in-ground cylinder
Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2024 12:41 pm
by Windcatcher530 Dan
Welcome to the forum Henry. I'm going to say from my experience there probably wasn't a windmill it was just a hand pump. This is the most recent one I found !!
20240826_133217.jpg
Re: Montgomery Ward in-ground cylinder
Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2024 1:03 pm
by Paisanoil
OK Thank you. Any tricks or pitfalls to disassembly? No reason for it except curiosity. It was cool to find it anyway. That one looks like it was in a cistern or dug well, not buried in the soil. Great technology for the times.
Re: Montgomery Ward in-ground cylinder
Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2024 1:12 pm
by Windcatcher530 Dan
Never ventured to take one apart. Penetrating oil and heat should do it. Let us know.
Re: Montgomery Ward in-ground cylinder
Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2024 3:43 pm
by windybob
When a sandpoint is driven, usually a cylinder is placed towards the top for "ease of servicing". Ok, right.
I don't know if you have a sand point or not. 60 ft is awful deep for a point, I don't think a point will work past 25 ft or so, due to the weight of the water, vs the suction of pulling on it. Cylinders were place below the frost line, or in a underground structure to prevent freezing, but a weep hole may or may not have been place above the cylinder. If the water does not weep back down, of course it would freeze. A weep hole also could let in dirt, or attract roots. We have installed a few of those, but there is no perfect way, altho we have done everything imaginable so It could drain back and not freeze, but contain the water so it won't attract roots, or let dirt in the weep hole.
Is there water in the well? how far down is the water top? I think you might be spitting into the wind trying to work on this one. The best idea is to drill a 6 inch cased well so you could use any kind of pump to bring up water. Do your neighbors have any kind of well? maybe you can gain a little info on water availability, depth, and quality.
Re: Montgomery Ward in-ground cylinder
Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2024 3:49 pm
by windybob
Oh to get that apart, lay the cap on something hard, and hit the top with a hammer to break the rust seal. That way, you are slightly pinching the iron cap. The cylinder most likely has a brass sleeve inside, and may be worn thru. If you crack a cap by being to rough, I wouldnot lose any sleep over it. Better and newer cylinders are sold everyday. Wait on the heat. The high heat of heating a cap will burn any seals, or leathers you have left. After pinch-hitting the cap, put the cylinder in a vice, and use a good 24 or 36 pipe wrench. Usually on the cylinders, there are tabs to stop it from turning when it's in a vice. They are regular right handed threads, although threads vary from make to make.
Re: Montgomery Ward in-ground cylinder
Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2024 3:50 pm
by windybob
I think those bolts / nuts / plates may be homemade insurance of sorts.
Re: Montgomery Ward in-ground cylinder
Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2024 6:05 pm
by Paisanoil
windybob wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 3:43 pm
When a sandpoint is driven, usually a cylinder is placed towards the top for "ease of servicing". Ok, right.
I don't know if you have a sand point or not. 60 ft is awful deep for a point, I don't think a point will work past 25 ft or so, due to the weight of the water, vs the suction of pulling on it. Cylinders were place below the frost line, or in a underground structure to prevent freezing, but a weep hole may or may not have been place above the cylinder. If the water does not weep back down, of course it would freeze. A weep hole also could let in dirt, or attract roots. We have installed a few of those, but there is no perfect way, altho we have done everything imaginable so It could drain back and not freeze, but contain the water so it won't attract roots, or let dirt in the weep hole.
Is there water in the well? how far down is the water top? I think you might be spitting into the wind trying to work on this one. The best idea is to drill a 6 inch cased well so you could use any kind of pump to bring up water. Do your neighbors have any kind of well? maybe you can gain a little info on water availability, depth, and quality.
Static level is less than 20'. It may very well have been deeper than 60', that is just as far as a weight will drop. How deep would the cylinder have worked? The pipe turned as we removed the cylinder, and might be broken, or pulled out if not broken. I thought of trying that, but leaving a smaller pipe inside We might try to wash it out. At least it is a sign there is (was) water at that site.
Re: Montgomery Ward in-ground cylinder
Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2024 6:11 pm
by Paisanoil
windybob wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 3:50 pm
I think those bolts / nuts / plates may be homemade insurance of sorts.
Yes, they would keep it from unscrewing, and were obviously a response to some issue.
Re: Montgomery Ward in-ground cylinder
Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2024 6:17 pm
by windybob
I would drive a new sandpoint a couple feet away from that one. It would be the cheapeast thing to do. Get as long of one as you can. I've seen them 5 ft or more. I would not go below 3 ft length of a point.